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maritime history and African Americans

Last post 01-08-2008 7:25 AM by Captain John. 12 replies.
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  • 12-03-2007 10:45 AM

    maritime history and African Americans

    I run a program in Boston that teaches on the water skills, boat building and oral history/primary source research about African Americans in the maritime industry. I am especially looking or oral history leads on the subject. Anyone out there have relatives that could be interviewed and/or photos or other info on the subject?

    John Rowse
    617-595-8557
  • 12-17-2007 11:01 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    Good afternoon Capt John,

     '

    Re:  "maritime industry"; "other info";

    This is probably not what you're looking for - and  admittedly, it's naval history and not maritime... - but in "Timechart of the Civil War",2003, ISBN: 07858-1673-9, at pg 59 under "Blacks fighting For The Union", it reads:

     

    "The Union Navy readily accepted black enlistees as sailors... ...some served as pilots or manned guns.   By the time the Civil War ended, ...blacks...29,000 in the Union Navy."

    Bob

     

  • 12-26-2007 4:35 PM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    An interesting point, Bob. When my torpedo bomber squadron was formed late in WW2, there were no black men in it. Indeed, I never saw any black navy flyers during 1944-46. No pilots, no gunners, no support staff -- an interesting point in view of your quotation about the Civil War Navy..."some served as pilots or manned guns." Not 80 years later. Charlezzzzz
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  • 12-26-2007 5:34 PM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    You might find oral history leads if you can get in touch with merchant marine people who sailed from the period 1946-55. Unions were strong then; early in those years some unions had no African American members -- others accepted black seamen. The unions, under contract, supplied men to the shipping companies who had their own standards on the subject. Unions tended to come in competing pairs, and their willingness to accept black sailors differed; so did the willingness of the shipping companies who were supplied with seamen by those unions. You might compare the NMU (National Maritime Union) which largely supplied men to the Atlantic and Gulf ports with the SUP (the Sailors Union of the Pacific.) If I remember correctly -- but perhaps I don't -- the SUP was leading in their willingness to help African Americans to sign on, and companies based in California were more willing to sign black sailors on. My own union, the American Radio Association, had a few black radio officers on our rolls, and I heard that the union port agents had to occasionally fight the steamship companies to get our members taken on board. (It's in the contract!) I can supply one tiny anecdote for a flavor of the times -- a few years before the civil rights movement came into view: I signed on a Grace Line passenger ship, the Santa Paula, for a single trip as a Christmas relief for the Third Radio Op. Perhaps it was 1950. One of the other two radio guys was an African American. I believe he was named Bonner. He and I, both New Yorkers, were standing out on deck behind the radio shack, chatting about something inconsequential. Since we were on a passenger ship, we were both wearing our officer uniforms, when one of the ship's Assistant Engineer officers came along and joined the conversation. Babble babble babble for a few minutes, and then the Engineer, apropos of nothing, completely out of context, spoke of a *** in the Woodpile. All three of us were silent for an instant; the Engineer, clearly embarrassed, swallowed, turned, and abruptly left us. Bonner looked at me; I didn't know how to handle my own reaction -- I was simply amazed at the Engineer's blunder and embarrassed for Bonner, and I merely made a face. Bonner said, "What did he expect me to do. Vanish?" One more anecdote. In 1948 my freighter left Bombay for Australia. I remember one of the African-Americans in the crew, having learned that black men would not be permitted to go ashore in Australia, insisted while we were still at sea that he was going to go ashore anyway. I know nothing more about it, but I believe that when we left Australia he was not aboard. Charlezzzzz, regretting imperfect memory and inexpert knowledge, but cherishing the memory of all the men I sailed with
  • 12-28-2007 8:02 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    Good morning Charles (Munozzzzzz),

     

    Interesting information...

     

    Blacks found both racial (ie skin pigmentation) and "other" discrimination in the maritime trades.

     

    The US military was segregated during WWII until the very end.  Truman made the legal changes.

     

    I understand US maritime labor unions were different than non-maritime unions; maritime management was eligible to join.

     

    Gotta run...I'm busy preparing an outline to post here at this site re how to teach maritime labor history.  This is about as difficult as teaching the human condition.

     

     

    Warm regards,

     

     

  • 12-28-2007 8:22 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    Munozzzzz, 

    Great ideas. THANKS!!!

     I will try finding some contacts and post my request to see if it gets me anywhere. Will keep you informed about my findings.

     Thanks again for the help.

    Anyone else please contiunue to send ideas and contacts. I am in Boston, so any personal contacts here would be great. I recently found a relative of Matthew Henson living very close to me. I am attempting ot build a base of folks who would be willing to be interviewed by students as they develop a data base of information about Afriucan Americans and maritime history in Boston. I get great responses from the kids when we work on this. Helping kids of color make their own cultural connection to history is a great way to get them hooked on learning.

     John

    John Rowse
    617-595-8557
  • 12-28-2007 8:56 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

     Interesting thread. Can't wait to hear what you come up with.

      

    Richard
  • 12-28-2007 9:02 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    Richard, 

    Interesting photo posted with your reply. What is it?

     John

    John Rowse
    617-595-8557
  • 12-28-2007 1:26 PM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    [Blacks found both racial (ie skin pigmentation) and "other" discrimination in the maritime trades.] Indeed. There seemed to be a disproportionate number of black sailors from the islands of the Caribbean on the ships I sailed on. I remember standing close to the main mast on a Liberty ship when somebody aloft dropped a huge heavy deadly metal shackle from the crosstree. It smashed down about two feet away from me. Big bang! I think it may have even dented the deckplates. The man above cried out, a bit late, "Look out below." The AB next to me (from Jamaica, I think) looked at me, grinned, and said, "Mon, that's nonsense." It got to be a saying aboard that ship. "Mon, that's nonsense." I still mutter it to myself at appropriate moments. A fine phrase. [The US military was segregated during WWII until the very end.  Truman made the legal changes.] In the early '60's, I had several meetings with a retired US army general, Buck Lanham. Authoritative, of course. White. Somewhat wild. He told me that he was the man who had "desegregated the army." Later, reading about him (he had been a good friend of Ernest Hemingway) I found that he had been in charge of -- oh, I don't quite know what -- some aspect of military supply. Logistics. Ever come across his name? His ideas on encouraging racial equality in the US were, to say the least, eccentric. I never heard the like of them, thank goodness. [I understand US maritime labor unions were different than non-maritime unions; maritime management was eligible to join.] Don't think so. Not that I ever heard. Not company shore executives. Would be amazed if that were so. But ship's officers, of course, had their own unions. Mine was American Radio Association. Deck officers were Masters, Mates, and Pilots. There was a union for ship's engineers "The Marine Engineers Beneficial Association." MEBA: I think it still exists in some form. For a few years it included a few thousand air traffic controllers. Obviously, there have been changes. [Gotta run...I'm busy preparing an outline to post here at this site re how to teach maritime labor history.  This is about as difficult as teaching the human condition.] As for maritime labor, you might consider a look at the minor character Donkin in Conrad's great novel, "The *** of the Narcissus." Donkin is a sea lawyer, a shirker, an all round bad sailor, an image of how earliest union men might have looked to company management, though I don't think that Conrad made the "union" connection explicit. But Donkin is the kind of sailor who, when I was sailing post WW2, would have upset matters by raising a near mutiny when he found that officers had innerspring mattresses and seamen didn't. (I believe that this was one of the negotiating points in working out a contract when NMU met management -- a real contention.) I was a member of the ARA radio negotiating committee when we negotiated a tanker contract with the oil companies in New York around 1950, and there was quite a lot of unstated animosity underlying the discussions. The maritime industry was trying to reorganize itself after the great depression of the '30's and the struggle of WW2. All around the world in those years there were strikes, not only in shipping, but also among longshore groups. If your ship was at sea when your union struck, of course the voyage would continue until you returned to a US port. I've taught Conrad's novel in college level classes at CCNY. Students had little difficulty with it, once they recognized that James Wait, the "***" of the title is an intensely drawn character, a dying man, a doomed sailor of immense dignity, a sailor too sick to work, an isolated man around whom the book pivots, Conrad's book is a marvel devoted to the lonely dignity of men bound by duty in the last days of British sail. (I placed the book, by the way, in the syllabus right after Huck Finn, which has a surprising set of parallels with it.) Charlezzzzz, thinking that Odysseus' management of his crew on that long home-bound trip was an early example of bad management. All of them, except the captain himself, were killed one way or another -- eaten by monsters, turned into pigs, drowned...whatever.
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  • 12-29-2007 12:00 PM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    Good afternoon Munozzzzz,

     

    I'm not familiar with General Buck Lanhan but will keep a lookout.

     

    I've got a mental block re my example(s) of management in the US maritime labor unions.  Was not thinking of American Maritime Officers as a technicality. I'm placing this on the back burner....if I run across my material, I'll present it here.  Otherwise, again, don't know what I was thinking about.

     

    Besides mental blocks, also can't find my maritime labor material re African-Americans.  Had thought I filed it under my Port Chicago WWII material (later renamed: Naval Weapons Station Concord, California; about 30-40 statute miles from San Francisco). Also, will be looking for this accordian folder.

     

    If and when time permits, will glance at Conrad's work.

     

    You mentioned "oil companies" and "tanker contract" above. I wouldn't know the difference between a bridge over the Intercoastal Waterway and one on a vessel.  I do know what a wheelhouse is. I'm from the oil industry ! (FACS)

    Fair seas and following winds....

     

    Bob 

     

     


     

  • 01-01-2008 12:19 PM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    I have no idea who he is. The photo was found among many antique pics referenced in an online archive. This one was under the label of "maritime". I can only assume he was some sort of whaler or fisherman. Either way, I like the old gent.

     
     

    Richard
  • 01-08-2008 4:53 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    vvhttp://www.usmm.org/african-americans.html

     

    Good morning CAPT John,

     

    I'm sure the above  link duplicates material you already have.  However, better to duplicate than neglect.

     

    My United Fruit Company stuff is mostly paper but some of it is on the web I believe.  Will be looking for it in this fire trap of a study of mine (Good maritime term with my 2nd definition: " slop chest").

     

    The above link has a good picture of CAPT Molzac.  The 17 Liberty ships named after African-Americans has some decent pictures.

     

    Warm regards,

     

    Bob 

  • 01-08-2008 7:25 AM In reply to

    Re: maritime history and African Americans

    Great Stuff!!!!!

     

    The United Fruit connection could be very personal for me. My mother's mother was a Hatch from Marshfield MA. They were connected to United Fruit and the railroads in Central America. I am not sure that I wowuld be proud of all the activities they may have engaged in but the connection is very interesting to me. Your note about it in your post really reinvigorated the search for details.

     

    John

    617-595-8557 if you have relevent info you would like to share

    John Rowse
    617-595-8557
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